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Some Good Articles I found for your reading pleasure

August 26, 2009

Ken Miller writes a good article on why he can be a believer and a scientist here.

And yes, shocker, I’m recommending an article by Richard Dawkins. A fairly decent article, but I think to equate people who believe in six day creationism with Holocust deniers is just plain irresponsible. Go here.

And finally, a good article by Tim Callahan on some aspects of the whole “Jesus never existed and was created to be a first centuary sun God skubulos. Go here

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18 Comments leave one →
  1. Paul Bell permalink
    August 26, 2009 3:11 pm

    I have to disagree Jonathan

    Holocaust deniiers = 100% wrong & dangerous and offensive

    the same three criteria apply to YECs .

    It may be a sacred cow to mention the holocaust as a simile in rhetoric, to some , but not me.

  2. Paul Bell permalink
    August 26, 2009 3:27 pm

    Good podcast I have found for your listening

    Being broadcast NOW, but can download later as a podcast –

    The atheist and the Bishop
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00m6ggf

    Series in which an atheist and a bishop come together to apply their own philosophies to the experiences of people they meet. …where we get our values from and whether you need God to be good…..

  3. Richard Eis permalink
    August 26, 2009 3:29 pm

    I think the holocaust reference was misjudged because people get the wrong idea due to the loaded language and it’s already been jumped on thus hi-jacking the issue. Really he should have used flat-earthers (especially since they are usually biblically based). The point however is that denial of obvious facts with an agenda applies to both. It also applies to evolution deniers and autism-vaccine people and people against “western” medicine. etc.. etc…

    So on this I agree with you. But probably for slightly different reasons.

  4. thomas2026 permalink*
    August 26, 2009 5:03 pm

    No, I think we actually share very similiar reasons on this one, Richard. Thanks!

  5. Richard Eis permalink
    August 26, 2009 6:02 pm

    Similar…but you say irresponsible…i say bad tactics. A different point of view then perhaps.

    Pastor Tom made a post about atheists loving to argue with people. Unfortunately i am turning into that atheist.

  6. thomas2026 permalink*
    August 26, 2009 6:11 pm

    Richard,
    You spoke the name! AHHHHHH!!!!!

    I think “Pastor” who-must-not-be-named LOVES the attention.

  7. AdamK permalink
    August 26, 2009 6:15 pm

    I’m an atheist, and I never argue with anyone, especially Jonathan.

  8. thomas2026 permalink*
    August 26, 2009 6:18 pm

    Adam,
    You are full of Skubulos. 🙂

  9. Nick permalink
    August 26, 2009 7:47 pm

    I have a huge amount of respect for both Ken Miller and Jerry Coyne; ditto for Chris Hitchens and Richard Dawkins. Bur I am trying to stay out of the Accomodationist argument levied against religious scientists like Miller. I certainly don’t understand how a man as brilliant as Ken is, knowing as much about the facts of evolution as anyone currently working, can also believe in any god-thing, but I am not bright enough to argue with him about it.

    Catholics, as Ken Miller is, seem especially adept at holding these seemingly contradictory ideas of “evolution is a fact” and “god started it”. I state this from personal experience including many Catholic friends, and an intelligent Catholic wife of 25 years.

    I don’t understand it, but since they don’t try to proselytize, I don’t argue with them. If they are on our side against the YECs, then I want them to be happy to be there.

  10. Nick permalink
    August 26, 2009 7:51 pm

    P.S. to Tom… I hope you also read the debate between Hitchens and Miller linked from Ken’s site.

  11. erp permalink
    August 26, 2009 11:37 pm

    I agree that holocaust denial as a comparison derails arguments unless the argument is really about holocaust denial. Personally I would use geocentrists rather than flat-earthers; they are a lot closer to us in time (the story that Columbus’s critics thought he would sail off the edge is pure fabrication (they actually thought he had seriously underestimated the size of the ocean between Spain and the Indies and they were right, fortunately for Columbus there was another continent in the way)).

    Also would it be possible to put links to significant words (e.g., the author’s name) and not “here”.

  12. thomas2026 permalink*
    August 26, 2009 11:39 pm

    Yeah, I just got lazy today.

  13. ferret wrangler permalink
    August 26, 2009 11:44 pm

    thomas2026, on August 26th, 2009 at 6:11 pm Said:
    Richard,
    You spoke the name! AHHHHHH!!!!!

    I think “Pastor” who-must-not-be-named LOVES the attention.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    FYI – I mentally use the name ‘nutjob’ – considering his name, wanting to be stroked, and shooting stuff outta his orifice…

  14. Ray S. permalink
    August 27, 2009 12:26 am

    I can only assume that you would want to avoid insulting holocaust deniers by comparing them to creationists.

    While I think holocaust deniers are misinformed, I’ve never heard of any of them claiming that he laws of physics do not apply to their beliefs.

  15. AdamK permalink
    August 27, 2009 6:39 am

    I found this brief post about religious values interesting:

    http://jeffreygoldberg.theatlantic.com/archives/2009/08/henry_waxman_on_mixing_judaism.php

    Maybe it’s a close as human beings can get to addressing the problems of human suffering.

  16. Fauxrs permalink
    August 27, 2009 3:48 pm

    I dont think the comparison to holocaust deniers was bad tactics, quite the contrary. That sort of comparison will create the kind of sensationalism that sells books and gets internet traffic.

    The comparison feeds the opinion of his (Dawkins) fans for the most part, and opponants of Dawkins are going to be offended anyway.

    As previously mentioned I am sure the comparison is one of ‘absolute denial or ignorance of facts, distortion of facts and an agenda the opposition is trying to pursue’ and less one of direct comparison of creationist = nazi

  17. August 28, 2009 1:42 pm

    dear Jonathan-
    someone is trying to graduate, once i do that, ill start posting.

    Love, your Lutheran insubordinate friend.

  18. August 28, 2009 11:47 pm

    Nick writes> Catholics, as Ken Miller is, seem especially adept at holding these seemingly contradictory ideas of “evolution is a fact” and “god started it”. I state this from personal experience including many Catholic friends, and an intelligent Catholic wife of 25 years.

    Faith and Reason are contradictory by definition. Um … OK … I’m not going to surprise anyone here with that statement. I’ll start again. (cue Spanish Inquisition)

    It’s not that they are seemingly different, they are blatantly different. Faith and reason lead to different conclusions, and if you have faith you have to deal with that contradiction and value it differently. For my own part, I think faith needs to be tempered with reason, otherwise it becomes fanaticism.

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